Last edited: February 13, 2005


Matalin and Carville Exchange Barbs on Santorum

NBC News, May 11, 2003
Meet The Press (excerpt)

Host: Tim Russert

Guests: John Snow, Treasury Secretary; Senator Tom Daschle, (D-S.D.) Minority Leader; Mary Matalin, Republican Strategist; James Carville, Democratic Strategist

MR. RUSSERT: Mary, let me turn to the issue of gay Americans. Two hundred gay Republicans met with three White House officials on Friday.

MS. MATALIN: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: As you well know, the Republican Unity Coalition, a group that youíve spoken to in the past, headed by former President Gerald Ford, had this to say about Senator Santorum of Pennsylvania: ďIt is flat-out wrong for Senator Santorum to compare homosexual conduct with bigamy, incest, polygamy and adultery. These are false and harmful comparisons that do not distinguish between conduct that is harmful and hurtful to fellow humans and society, and conduct between consenting adults in the sanctity of their own home that harms absolutely no one. ... Senator Santorum owes an apology to gay men and women who support, build and have loving families all across America.Ē Do you agree with that?

MS. MATALIN: They are parroting what the Democratic interpretation of what Senator Santorum, whoís a wonderful, caring, loving man who spent much of his career helping the poor and the homeless. As a legal matter, this great senator, was parroting the same position that Justice Byron White, a Kennedy appointment took in the Ď80s in the Bowers case. As moral matter, he is a devout Catholic, as is my altar boy husband here, and that church teaches that you must love and accept the individual but you cannot accept the act. The act is a sin.

They have raised the tolerance bar here. Itís not good enough to say, as the senator said, ďI love this person. I accept this person. But my teaching argues against the act.Ē You now have to reject your religious doctrineóif you want to call anybody a bigot, then you should call Justice Byron White and the pope a bigot because those goals are the prevailing farce that...

MR. CARVILLE: I think itís the most cockamamy thing in the world. We donít care if youíre homosexual, you just canít act on your sexual impulses.

MS. MATALIN: Itís youíre [sic] church. Itís youíre [sic] church.

MR. CARVILLE: Well, that church is wrong on that.

MS. MATALIN: I donít disagree with that.

MR. CARVILLE: To tell somebodyóI completely...

MS. MATALIN: The church is wrong on that, but you donít call the pope a bigot.

MR. CARVILLE: I think the pope is wrong. But let me just say this right now.

MS. MATALIN: Is that a bigot? Is he a bigot?

MR. CARVILLE: Heís notóagain, Rick Santorum...

MS. MATALIN: Thatís what youíre calling Santorum.

MR. CARVILLE: ...is a non-inclusive person. George Bush can tell you about it. I think itís entirely...

MS. MATALIN: Oh, itís outrageous.

MR. CARVILLE: Now, wait a minute.

MS. MATALIN: And this president is more inclusive.

MR. CARVILLE: Let me finish this thought. It is entirely cockamamy to say somebody who commits incest is the same as two homosexuals living together and itís cockamamy to say itís OK to be a homosexual. We canít do anything about it. . . .


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